Does it ever seem to you like some people are just built to deadlift, while you struggle with yours? That’s because this is actually the case. We all have different body leverages caused by the ratio of our lower legs to our upper legs, leg to torso ratio, etc. This is called anthropometry. In this episode, Coach Erik and Coach Alex discuss their anthropometric differences and the resulting training considerations.

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:31 Alex’s History
06:03 Powerlifting Federation Explanation
08:57 Transition from Powerlifting to MMA
09:56 Built to Deadlift? Body Proportions
14:16 Deadlift Programming – Frequency Considerations
17:10 Long Levered Squats and Accessories
20:50 Conjugate Training Explained
24:30 Training the Deadlift Without Deadlifting
28:30 Bench Considerations
30:10 The Big Takeaway

Transcript:

Erik: Welcome to Skol Sessions, the Viking Athletics podcast where strength meets smart. I am your host, Erik Castiglione, owner and head coach of Viking Athletics. And today I am joined by Coach Alex Graffagnino, who is our powerlifting director. What’s up, Alex? Thanks for joining us.

Alex: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Erik: Our topic today is anthropometry. What the hell does that mean? We’re gonna be talking about body proportions, kind of limb length, and so that we don’t have our listeners glaze their eyes over with boredom, mostly we’re gonna talk about practical implications of different body types. So if you have ever discovered that you just, no matter what, can’t seem to get good at a lift, you just can’t find a good starting position. We’ll get into the whys behind that and a little bit on how to program around certain things and what what tweaks you may need to make to your own programming based on your lever length. So before we dive in there, Alex, welcome to the podcast. First time we’ve had you on here, so why don’t dive into your background a little bit and kind of how you wound up what you’ve done in the past and how you managed to land this position as our powerlifting director.

Alex: Yeah, I’ll give you the full rundown. Let’s see, I played sports all through high school. You know, kind of lifted here and there. Super small school, so we had to go to different schools to play sports. So we would have from 2 .30 to 3 to kind of lift weights, hop on the bus, go to a different school, play lacrosse, football, soccer, whatever it was. Did that all through high school. Never was serious about the weights and… We only had 30 minutes. Yeah, and then got into college, played some intramurals. But that’s when I really got into the weight room, really. And spent four years bro -lifting, just chest, arms, back, shoulders. Did legs maybe three times throughout my college career. Hated it. You know, and that was kind of the start of, hey, I’m not built to squat. I don’t like this at all and never did it. Fast forward, graduate college and I had a buddy growing up who, his dad was kind of the one that took everyone under his wing and taught us how to lift and his house was the Mecca gym pretty much. He had power lifted and he passed away in a very fatal car accident. And that kind of like, I don’t know, it just lit a fire under me and I was like, you know what, I want to get into power lifting. I had two teachers in high school that power lifted, old school power lifters, multiply stuff. Started working with one of them, you know, just giving me the rundown and got into power lifting. Had never dead lifted before. Never really squatted. You know, I was a bro so I had a decent bench. I would bench in like 250 or 260. I don’t know, 150 pounds, 160 pounds. And then this is when I was working on tugboat and trained for my first power lifting meet on the back of a tugboat. Pretty much not ideal, but he really, really liked it. You know, I saw the strength gains come pretty quickly. So the first time my dead lifted was in my gym over the summer, my high school gym. I saw a kid screaming and yelling trying to pull 365 and it pissed me off because I was never a grunter. And the next day I went into the gym, loaded 365, pulled it. That was the first time I had ever dead lifted. Then the next week I pulled 405 and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. I need to, you know, dial this in. And yeah, the rest is history. So I worked with the coach, found a belt for sale online on Facebook Marketplace, an SBD belt because I saw that’s what everyone was wearing. Went to pick it up at a, what was the name of the gym? On Long Island. Badass gym. Anyway, I go in there, I meet this guy, Rob Ali, who is like, oh, I’m a power lifting coach. Are you looking for coaching? I’m like, I’m looking for this belt and coaching. Yeah, that works out. And, you know, he prepped me for my first meet. You know, I was working two weeks on, two weeks off on a tugboat. So I had a little weight set up on there. Did that first meet, you know, kind of fell in love with it. And then I was like, all right, let me try to grasp this training and peaking, you know, cycle and programming and spent the next, the next year pretty much just playing around with my own programming. I think I trained for about 22 weeks straight of running a variation of Lane Norton’s PH3 on an Excel spreadsheet where input your numbers. Almost every other week you had like an AMRAP. If you hit a certain number, you got the weight up. Yeah, and I had great success with that. I literally just linear progress all the way through. I was doing a ton of volume, ton of accessory volume. How old were you? I was about, I think I just turned 24. Okay. So I did my first one, I think I was 23 years old and I just, that was a USAPL meet and I just missed qualifying for nationals. I think my final pull was 479 and I needed like a 500 pull, which I probably had some in the tank. But then my goal for the next one, I was like, you know, I’m going to do a USPA meet. At the time it was kind of flip -flopped where the USAPL was, it was kind of the poster child of very cut and narrow, the meets weren’t that fun, no music. USPA was, you know, a little more fun, a little more intense, loud music for the walkouts. And I was like, okay, that’s what I’m going to do next.

Erik: So to jump in here for our listeners, um, the sport of Olympic weightlifting, there’s one federal, well, now there’s two, there’s two mass, there’s a separate masters Federation for a very long time. There was only one Federation. It was USA weightlifting in the United States. And it was a subsidiary of the IWF, the international weightlifting Federation. So one ruling body, USPA, USAPL. There’s, I don’t even know how many federations there are.

Alex: Half a dozen now maybe more

Erik: But each lifting federation for power lifting has kind of different rules as you hear Alex talking about the setup meet setup No music versus music and for a long time correct me if I’m wrong. It was the USAPL was the IPF.

Alex: Exactly.

Erik: So it was kind of analogous to the USA weightlifting. It was under a bigger banner that has since changed. But, uh, if you don’t keep track of the different federations, you’re not alone. Don’t worry about it.

Alex: U .S .P .A. also deadlift bar, a power bar for bench, and then a squat bar. I bought about 10 grand in gym equipment for my house, bought a deadlift bar and plates and really trained, just dialed everything in, didn’t know anything about nutrition really, I was just, okay let me get my protein in.

Erik: I was going to say you’re 24, you can get away with a lot of shit when you’re 24.

Alex: So I trained for like, I think like 22 weeks straight and I knew every number I was going to hit. Like I was very, very dialed in with my training, drove up to Rochester, New York with my brother and two buddies and competed in, I think it was the Rochester Grand Prix, ended up winning. I smashed every state record, pulled a 545 deadlift to finish and pretty much felt like he could have loaded anything on the bar and I would have pulled it that day. So after that, it was very bittersweet because I had accomplished everything that I wanted to. Like almost in my friend’s name, I was like, you know what, I want to go out and break all the state records, did that, qualified for IPL Worlds in Limerick, Ireland, which I do regret not going to and competing in. But I think I was a little burnt out because powerlifting is very monotonous and training for almost half a year straight. You know, it gets tiring and also accomplishing everything. I felt like I had almost nothing left to prove exactly. Yeah, so that was like the start and kind of the end of, like the peak of my powerlifting career. I continued to train pretty max effort, like I kept my numbers up pretty well, but just took a break from, again, the monotonous of banged up shoulders from low bar squatting, benching four times a week. And then I, you know, fast forward a little bit, I end up moving up here, get into MMA, training drastically changes because that’s very endurance based, you know, so I still kept in a lot of, you know, very, very conjugate -esque max effort stuff, but more dynamic speed work. And yeah, got, ended up coaching the powerlifting program, starting it at Viking Athletics. And I think we’re on year three now of, you know, having that going.

Erik: Yeah. I, uh, I always lose track of time when my college reunion a couple of weekends ago and I was like, Oh, I just saw them. Oh no, wait, that was six years ago. Nevermind. Um, so time flies. I do think we’re on about year three.

Alex: We passed the 36 month mark.

Erik: I think 2021 about when we started. But you brought up a lot of different things that I kind of wanted to touch on in terms of training styles and how your training has evolved and what factors might cause us to change specifically how we’re training. But first, to get into our main topic, you mentioned that the second week you ever deadlifted, you pulled 405 despite having never trained that. Yep. So this is a fantastic lift that demonstrates the difference in people’s levers. The first person I ever encountered who had the first time he ever deadlifted, he pulled 500, was at a strongman competition. And this kid had started strength training in the gym six months prior, but he grew up on a farm. So was he advantageous in his leverages or did he just have natural strength from growing up or maybe both?

Alex: Probably a bit of both

Erik: Um, but when we’re talking about different body types and lever lengths, specifically what we’re talking about are the bones in your legs and the ratio of those compared to your upper body. So your tibia and fibula, some people have long, some people have short. Same with your femur, you know, the thigh bone. Different lengths. And then people have long and short torsos. So for example, I have short legs and a very long torso. Um, so when I deadlift, I have to be a little bit squattier. Um, it’s hard to keep my shoulders behind the bar. My shoulders like to go in front of it. So it’s not the most advantageous position for me. So deadlift for me takes a hell of a lot of work, hell of a lot of practice to maintain my starting position. Um, and my first introduction to kind of lever length was when I actually took my USA weightlifting level one, the coach is talking about recruiting and he’s like, ideally you want people with these proportions and I’m sitting there like, I’m here to learn how to teach the lifts. Why the hell do I care about any of this? And then you realize that the mission of USA weightlifting is to develop people for the Olympics. So in that sense, yes, you want people that have the most advantageous body types because they are the most likely to be successful in the sport and the best illustration of that is if you look at the Chinese weightlifting team, if you remember the old, uh, singular wireless commercials where they just show how many bars they have and each bar gets progressively higher, that’s exactly what the Chinese Olympic lifting team looks like. They are until you get to the super heavyweight, it might as well just be a straight line drawn from head to head to head, uh, on a diagonal. They are all the exact same proportions and they are highly successful. You could make the argument that it’s because of, you know, state sponsored doping, but they all have that natural talent and build for it. They are built to lift. So in your case, you’re the exact opposite of me, long legs, short torso, long arms, um, and you know, no disrespect to the work you’ve put in. I know you’re trying to hit what, 600 in how many weeks now?

Alex: I think about six weeks, July 27th.

Erik: Yeah. Obviously, you still have to work at it and you went from 405 to 479 to 545. How long did that take you? About a year?

Alex: Yeah, about a maybe a little over a year.

Erik: So that’s damn impressive and that’s fast, fast progress. I look back at my deadlifting career and to be fair, I learned to deadlift in CrossFit other than on a trap bar. I would mess with a trap bar in college. But my former coach, my predecessor, at what was then only CrossFit Relentless, now we fly that under a bigger banner, he didn’t know how to get me in position. So he had me mess with Sumo, which was actually worse for my torso position. Took a bit to dial that in, but for a long time I couldn’t even get into position. And I remember being stuck at 385 for about 18 months. And that was after maybe two, three years of CrossFit. So it took a lot of practice and a lot of figuring out where I’d get stuck, initial leg drive, getting the coordination perfect. And I still struggle with that. When you and I were having a conversation when we first talked about doing this podcast, I do follow largely a conjugate style of training. So max effort, dynamic effort days. And I will see the deadlift really only on dynamic effort days and the vast majority of what I’m doing are speed pulls, which is great. It’ll help me with the leg drive, but I struggle to get my hips through. And unless I’m really grooving that movement pattern and practicing it, which I recently started doing, just heavy set of five, resetting on every rep, keeping that practice is essential for me. And if I don’t deadlift for a long time and I come back to it, I feel like I’ve forgotten exactly. So for me, it’s always been a fickle lift. Whereas we were chatting about kind of your, call it reserve strength where, okay, I haven’t done this in a while. What can I reliably hit by walking up to the bar? And for me now that is about 405. I think you, for the first time you deadlifted and however long you just walked up and pulled 500 and comes right off the floor.

Alex: That’s generally where generally where my baseline is um and and you know what even sumo too like every every few months i’ll play around sumo uh i tend to handle volume a lot better sumo but i reached that point where i could pull 500 i think i’ve pulled 525 or 530 a few times but again i’m very fast twitch and very explosive off the ground and i lose that with sumo and i don’t have the best levers or mobility for sumo to be a really really good sumo puller so i like it every now and again it gives me a little break um it definitely helps you know mobility and flexibility wise flexibility wise but throwing through um a much better conventional puller

Erik: Yeah, and I was just showing. Well, we just talked about the video. Give a shout out to Danielle Marshall, former member who for anyone that actually follows this podcast, all six of you. Episode two was with Danielle. We were talking about strength training as a form of injury prevention, him being a former NBA athlete. He just posted a video of himself deadlifting 405 pounds at a height of 6 foot 9, super long arms. But that’s awesome given his knee injury history. Same kind of thing. And the reason that I really wanted to use the deadlift first is that is one glaring example of how different body types favor different stances and how, you know, you said you’re a lot of fast twitch. When I did my 23andMe, they told me I should be an endurance athlete. I don’t have that gene that supposedly you recover from the super explosive stuff very quickly. So I do need to grind away. And all my training has been very fast twitch. So unless I’m working on the high volume side of things, I lose that as well. You mentioned you found you did not like training lower body because you were not built to squat. So, you know, we’ve discussed our different proportions. How do you find the squat?

Alex: For me it is, you know, long legs and very poor ankle mobility. My squat was always very low bar, clamshell -esque, couldn’t stay upright unless I put something under my heels, a wedge, stood on plates, and it took me a while even when I got into powerlifting to really, you know, play around with heels, play around with squat stance, flats. You know, I got it to the point where I could hit depth and get white lights and powerlifting, but I never got any sort of quad stimulus. It was more of a low back, hamstring, glute dominant lift for me.

Erik: A squat morning.

Alex: Yeah, exactly, and I got strong, I mean, I think my final squat was, I think I squatted 413 in that meet in 2019. You know, so the numbers were there, but never any, you know, it would take me doing leg extensions, a hack squat, something to get any sort of quad stimulus. So throughout the years, it’s pretty much been, you know, and I don’t really squat with the straight bar anymore. It’s a lot of… You’re doing cambered now. Cambered bar, high box. You know, and I use machines to kind of fill that void of depth and extended range of motion. You know, unless I got into a rack or use a safety squat bar, you know, heels elevated to really like slow down and get that depth on my squats. It’s just a movement that for me, you know, it beats me up a little too much, whereas I could do a, you know, heavy box squats, get that strength stimulus that I’m looking for, and then use machines to fill in the rest and, you know, get that range of motion for some quad gains and stimulus there.

Erik: Whereas my background in Olympic lifting is I’ve always been more of a low bar squatter too. It just feels better. I can do high bar, I can do front, and my squats are all now ass to grass pretty much. So again, different lever lengths change the position, changes the leverages on what’s actually doing the work and bearing the weight. And it’s good that you have the knowledge that you’re filling those gaps and getting the quad work in, obviously, and especially for staying springy as a fighter. You also mentioned that your initial training was very, very high in volume. It was that volume of the main lifts and accessory work. It was both.

Alex: Yeah, it was both and it’s it’s very different now now that I’ve kind of You know realized what I respond well to And again, I think that that’s just because it was such a new stimulus that I responded I responded well to high volume. I responded well to you’re also 24 you can recover from that. Yeah, exactly It was a lot. It was I was deadlifting twice a week benching four times a week squatting three times a week And pretty much accessories whether upper lower or full body You know five days a week. Whereas now Um, my you know, you know with with the conjugate that I’ve been kind of running Especially in fight camp. I I trained three days a week Pretty much a dynamic day a max effort day and then a full body day some variation of that but Not even half the volume that I was training with right

Erik: So, for the uninitiated, a typical conjugate program, you’re lifting four days a week. Now, I should say typical Westside conjugate style programming. What that means is you are building multiple capacities at the same time. So, you might be building max effort strength. You might be building speed and power. You’re going to focus on a couple of those. We call that concurrent periodization instead of focusing on just one thing like strength and then moving on to working on power. You’re working on multiple things simultaneously and Westside barbell popularize that. So, you can set up the conjugate a couple of different ways. Like Alex said, he’s doing it three days a week. The traditional Westside barbell method is four days a week where you have a max effort squat day on Monday. You have a max effort upper body day on Wednesday, a dynamic lower body day, squats and pulls on Friday, and then Saturday is a dynamic upper body day. So, that is kind of the split that I follow. Your max effort days are fairly low volume. It’s like you get a squat variation. You work up to the max for that day. You’re going to move on to a submaximal squat variation, build up to a heavy set of anywhere from two to eight depending on what it is, but that’s in like four sets, so you’re still only doing at most 32 reps there, and then two accessories and some core work, and you can get that done. Well, I’m not an elite level power lifter, so I can get that done inside an hour. If you’re talking world record holders, they’re probably going to need to rest for five minutes between each of their heavy singles to recover, so the reason I’m delving into this is as you, for the uninitiated, as you age, and as your training age within a sport increases, what it takes to get you progress is probably lower volume, but it is just those last couple heavy reps of each set that really drive progress, and in order to hit those, you need to be power lifters are going to rest for five minutes between their attempts, so when they say they’re training for three hours, a lot of that’s warm up and build up, and then recovering in between, so it’s not like they’re just working constantly for three hours when they say that.

Alex: And specifically for me, my base level strength is so much higher than, again, fighting at 135 or 145, that to maintain any top end strength, I really only needed to… I could hit a heavy pull once or twice a month and pretty much maintain that, you know, high 400 or 500 pull. A lot of my conjugate work was… It was dynamic work. It was speed work. A lot of jumps, a lot of throws, and then, you know, maybe every 10 or 12 days I hit, you know, a few heavy pulls just to maintain that. Because specifically for me, I didn’t really need any more of that top end strength.

Erik: Right. You have a reservoir to build. Now you can build power. And that was the other thing I wanted to talk about is when we were comparing kind of training styles, what it takes for me in order to maintain my deadlift. I need those reps in order to keep the form dialed in. Whereas you said you’re doing a heavy pull. And then what is the rest of your training? It’s mostly finding that kind of hip position. Like you said, what did you say? Belt squats. Good morning. Heavy.

Alex: Heavy cambered bar, high box, heavy cambered bar squats, is pretty much the main driver. It’s a very hip dominant movement for me, and it really mimics the start position of my deadlift, and gives me a lot of, I almost handle the volume a little better, and I’m still not doing a ton of volume, but I pretty much start my week with something like that. I have a day where I do some leg accessories, some quad stuff, and then I’ll throw in an upper body pump day, but this meet that I’m training for, it’s just a deadlift only meet, so that’s kind of the main focus, is hammering what works for my deadlift, and I have one day a week where I pull a pretty heavy, I played around with singles and doubles and triples. This week I kind of have a heavy single coming up, I’m gonna aim for around 5 .30, and then I pretty much stay in the two to five rep range for two or three sets, and that’s really it, the rest of my volume is made up in, again, good mornings, cambered bar box squats, reverse hypers, I really like the GHD Nordics, I respond well to those, but not a ton of volume, it really doesn’t take much for me. Again, the practice is definitely needed, like if I go without pulling on a straight bar for a while, which is what I did last year, I hadn’t pulled on a straight bar in over a year, I was just doing the heavy cambered bar box squats and pulling on a trap bar.

Erik: And then you build up to what, 575? 579,

Alex: Yeah, 573. In four weeks pretty much. I threw in a couple of days of just pulling with a straight bar for five reps to kind of get that back and I pulled a 529 single in the gym, which I was like, that’s the heaviest training single I’ve ever hit. And then pretty much just peaked for like three weeks, just dialed it in a little bit and pulled a lifetime PR of 573. And that was, again, without touching a straight bar deadlift in over a year. So I was like, that was a big learning curve for me of I know what I respond to now. Like this clearly works for me. And that’s, that’s kind of what I’ve been running with this prep.

Erik: So to kind of bring it back to anthropometry, Alex is able to use a lot of these accessory exercises which are less neurologically demanding than the deadlift because he’s able to recreate that hip position, that starting position that he has for the deadlift and you get a lot of carryover from those movements to the deadlift. So you’re kind of training the deadlift without training the deadlift. The trouble I have with doing these exercises is because my starting position is significantly lower, it’s very difficult for me to recreate. So West Side Barbell loves their bench deadlifts where you’re sitting on a bench and it forces you to keep a real upright torso and it’s, well, number one, it’s good for sumo. It’s not as effective for conventional. But I always struggle to find my hip position and I find honestly doing those for the most part is detrimental to me if I’m only doing those and not doing regular pulls because I forget where the hell my hips are supposed to be and then I’m struggling to get my hips in the right position. They’re either too high or they’re too low and the bar position changes. So again, different level lengths, different starting positions, different accessories are going to carry over a little bit differently. So specifically with the deadlift, that’s important to look at. We talked about squats. Alex is a little bit more of a hingy squat so he needs to do a lot more direct quad work to focus on that. When we talk bench, the longer your arms, the different your grip is going to be, right? You tend to have a little bit of a wider grip.

Alex: Yeah, super six foot two wingspin at 5 ‘8″. The long arms are not my friend. But again, with bench, volume was my friend, benching four days a week. I got up to a 300 pound bench at about 150 pounds. But again, it just wears on you and beats you up a little bit. So again, while that’s not my goal, I still maintain around probably a top single 265, but I do a lot more cambered bar pressing, you know, the football bar.

Erik: Well, now you gotta keep your shoulders healthy.

Alex: Exactly, exactly. It’s not the main goal to, you know, be able to bench as much as I can with a straight bar anymore.

Erik: Oh, I, my bench days started with a super wide grip, bro, chest, all that messed up my shoulder. So I played with different grips, a little bit closer to a narrow grip. Now I’m not quite a medium grip and say medium narrow, um, but it’s all triceps now. So my training for bench, nailing the triceps three days a week is what my coach has me do. So again, a different, different goal. Obviously I still train like a power lifter and, uh, you’re training to fight. Yeah. I get some explosive work in there, just not the throws. I do a lot of bands and chains, which again, also allows me to lift heavy without quote unquote lifting heavy. My joints aren’t bearing all of that. I get a nice little unloading at the bottom. Um, so just various training styles based on what people respond to. And, uh, bottom line is if you’re brand new to training, you can pretty much do anything and reap the benefits.

Alex: And that’s that’s the big takeaway is, you know, it doesn’t have to be the best program in the world. But if you buy into it and and put effort into it, you’re gonna you’re gonna see progress. And again, that that can carry you a very, very long time. You know, you don’t I don’t want to say you don’t need to seek out the most expensive coach, because again, good coaching is is unmatched, but you could have the best coach in the world and the best program. And if you are half -assing a workout or you don’t buy into it or trust the process, you’re not going to get as much out of it as out of a basic program that you really buy into and put your effort into.

Erik: 100%. And as far as tweaking which accessory movements are going to work best for you, I think you said like for each of us, it took about like 10 years to kind of figure out. Okay, this works for me. Okay, this doesn’t what do I need and we go from there.

Alex: So starting off, I knew that I had way different levers than I saw most people have in powerlifting. Even only 5 ‘8″, but competing at 145 pounds in powerlifting. The rest of the guys in my division are 5 ‘2″, 5 ‘3″, very stocky, I’m on the way, way taller and leaner side. So I kind of would seek out lifters on Instagram, guys that I saw on YouTube that had similar builds as me and really mimic what they were doing and what worked for them. Guys with long arms, guys with long legs and long arms, how they squatted and deadlifted. And that’s kind of how I created my style of lifting, which now I look at it and I’m like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. But starting off, if you try to mimic an Olympic lifter squat and you have a body like I do, you’re going to be very disappointed. Why can’t I get into that position? Why can’t I stay upright? So that was like the first few years is dialing in what works for me. And as soon as I found that out and stuck with it, it all made sense. It was very easy to then program for myself and choose the right accessories that worked for me.

Erik: So bottom line, when you’re starting out, a lot of trial and error. Figure out what works for you, what you like, seek a coach if you need help. And, uh, years later you can specialize and figure out what’s going to give you the most bang for your buck.

Alex: Right. And I think that goes into when you’re seeking out a coach, you know, if you’re paying for personal training or coaching, you’re paying for that 10 years of trial and error that I went through that I might be able to see and save you five years of messing around. Yeah, pain messing around, no progress. That’s what comes with the title and the experience.

Erik: 100% Awesome anything else you want to cover. I think we hit all the main points

Alex: Yeah, that’s, again, you know, everyone’s got different goals and, you know, different reasons why they lift. The sooner that you can kind of dial that in, I think the better your training can get. It’s, you know, and even today, I still make tweaks and, you know, find stuff in my training that I’m like, you know, the light bulb just clicks and there you go, figure something out and that’s, you know, 13 years into it. Awesome.

Erik: Well, I appreciate you joining us for the podcast. Again, Alex is our powerlifting coach. And if you guys are looking for coaching, we’re more than happy to help. Catch you guys in the gym. We’ll see you next time.